Upcoming Cherry Hill work

[ScottW]

Post #1 by JackW

I received a call from Monte at CdA Parks Dept. to see if we could provide someone to meet with their arborist (tree expert) at Cherry Hill as they plan some "fire smart" pruning and clearing. They want input from disc golfers to let them know what would be helpful to the disc golf course. I will be meeting them there Friday morning at 8:00 a.m. If anyone else wants to join us, feel free to show up. I will also solicit input at league tomorrow night, to get some ideas to pass on to the City. The Parks Dept. is also working on renewing the tee sponsorships for Cherry Hill for another 3 year period. Monte said that some of the money they raise could be used to improve more teepads at Cherry Hill. I will also run the idea by him of altering the course to improve safety and flow of play. We need to alleviate the congestion at holes #2, 4 and 8.

Post #2 by JackW

Ben Squires and I met with the City of CdA folks at Cherry Hill Friday morning and walked the hillside with them. Monte from the Parks Dept. was there, along with Karen who is the Arborist (tree expert) with the City, and Steve who is in charge of the Fire Smart programs in the area. Not sure what agency he works for. Their plan is to open up the main forested areas by 1) removing brush that is over 1' tall, 2) thinning trees that are less than 6" in diameter, to a spacing of about 5' between trees, and 3) limb the larger trees of branches within 10' of the ground. All cut wood will be immediately chipped on location and evenly spread for a nice ground cover. The overall purpose is to protect against wildfire that can spread quickly along the ground in heavy brush, and then up into the tree canopy through low lying branches. What we will end up with is a very open look to the park, with sight lines through the trees where now you have dense woods. It sounds to me to be similar to what I heard was done at the Timberbeast course in Troy, Montana.

It seems to me that it will actually be an oportunity for great improvements to the Disc golf course: 1) It will open up existing fairways by removing a lot of small clutter while leaving all the larger trees as obstacles – more like Corbin. 2) It will eliminate the dense thickets of small trees that put a disc golfer "in jail" with no options but to hack their way out. 3) It will open up the middle-upper section of the Park that is now unusable and reveal opportunities for new pin placements for some existing holes, and very likely provide space for some totally new holes. This could be the key to replacing holes #4 and #8 without going outside the park boundaries.

The City is very willing to work with the disc golf community to improve the course. They gave us some blue flagging ribbon so we can mark any trees that we think should not be removed (ones protecting teepads from errantly thrown discs, etc). The Fire Smart project does not incorporate the entire park, but the City is more than willing to have Parks staff do some limbing for us in other areas on request – such as to remove some low branches on hole #3 fairway, etc. Monte is very open to a redesign of the course after the Fire Smart work is done, and he himself suggested that maybe he should hold off on having any new tee signs made for the new sponsors until we complete plans for any changes to the course. I did throw out an offer that the Club could help with a new overlay for the main sign board if we drastically alter the course. Another thought that Monte mentioned is that they would like to do some improvements to teepads (levelling) and pathways with some of the funds they will receive from course sponsors this time around. Overall I think it will be a big plus for the disc golf course.

Now would be a good time to provide feedback to the NIDGC so we can work with the city to make some positive changes to a mediocre disc golf course.

[General Scales]

This is frickin wonderful news! This could actually make Cherry Hill a course that I would want to go play instead of just having to play it for league.

[Lothiam]

I wish the Spokane City Parks and SDGA could have a relationship like that!

[ScottW]

JackW posted this on the www.northidahodiscgolf.com forums

I stopped by Cherry Hill today to see what progress has been made on the clearing and thinning. They've worked the area below hole #4 teepad, and it's quite amazing to see how it has opened it up. I'm anxious to see what the area above #4 teepad looks like after they work it. I'd like to get some discussion going at League this Wednesday for possible new holes in that area. We may have a brief window of opportunity to request that some new fairways be opened up in that area if we come up with a cohesive plan that would build upon the existing course. With the amount of brush and trees that they seem to be removing, it wouldn't be a drastic change to ask for some clear throwing lanes by removing enough extra small trees to form a 20' or 30' wide fairway, working around the larger trees which will be left. One thought is lengthening hole #3, eliminating #4, then after current #5, possibly a couple new holes, with one going back toward the power lines, and then the next one bringing you back to the current #6 teepad area. Or another way to utilize that same general area would be to follow current hole #9 with a hole going across the hill back toward the sledding hill, and then another new hole bringing you back to the current #10 teepad area. The back 9 could also open up enough to add a fairway somewhere. If we can scope it out and come up with some possibilities before they actually clear an area, we could have them work the new fairways with a single pass through an area, though it is a bit difficult to see the possibilities while the dense brush and trees thickets are still there.

[Sean Johnson]

Just played the course today, and holy sh*t what a difference! Not only is the rough less of a jail, but some interesting new looks are opening up all over the place. Hole 4 used to demand a spike hyzer or overhand shot, but you could actually try and thread the needle with the thinning that's been done below the teepad.

Keep up the great work!

[ScottW]

I do hope that hole 4 is not the only highlight of the work done there as that hole is still #1 on the chopping block. I hate that hole and think it just needs to go, along with hole 8 to ease some of the congestion in that little area. I am hopeful that with this thinning that we will have alleys open up for entirely newer/safer/better holes. Holes 4 and 8 need to go away and other changes need to be made including redesigning many holes on the backside. I am optimistic that this tree thinning will be a good thing for disc golf there and am looking forward to seeing the changes on Wed. when we have league there this week. I have heard quite a few good responses to the work thus far.

[Sean Johnson]

Originally Posted by ScottW

I do hope that hole 4 is not the only highlight of the work done there as that hole is still #1 on the chopping block. I hate that hole and think it just needs to go, along with hole 8 to ease some of the congestion in that little area. I am hopeful that with this thinning that we will have alleys open up for entirely newer/safer/better holes. Holes 4 and 8 need to go away and other changes need to be made including redesigning many holes on the backside. I am optimistic that this tree thinning will be a good thing for disc golf there and am looking forward to seeing the changes on Wed. when we have league there this week. I have heard quite a few good responses to the work thus far.

Not at all, that was only one example of the thinning up there is opening up the holes. I'm with ya on hole 1; I'm never a big fan of potentially hitting cars if I saw one off or something. I've also been known to bomb the tennis courts from time to time.

[ScottW]

I wasn't saying that hole 1 is on the chopping block I was saying that hole 4 is #1 on the chopping block. I love hole 1 and think that if any player can't throw a driver without turning into the parking lot or tennis court then maybe they shouldn't be throwing a driver, myself included - no offense.

[General Scales]

Originally Posted by ScottW

I wasn't saying that hole 1 is on the chopping block I was saying that hole 4 is #1 on the chopping block. I love hole 1 and think that if a player can't throw a driver without turning into the parking lot or tennis court then maybe they shouldn't be throwing a driver - no offense.

Well played sir. I love hole 1. I am not a fan, however, of the tee pad sign saying that it's a par 4. There's no reason for it to be a 4.

[Sean Johnson]

Originally Posted by ScottW

I wasn't saying that hole 1 is on the chopping block I was saying that hole 4 is #1 on the chopping block. I love hole 1 and think that if a player can't throw a driver without turning into the parking lot or tennis court then maybe they shouldn't be throwing a driver - no offense.

Yeah, I must've misread your post about hole one, sorry about that.

To your point though, I think you've got a very naive view on that hole, no offense . I've seen pros, from locals all the way up to Dave Feldberg, turn drives over on accident. Given enough time, I could find dozens of videos online of Pros all over the world either turning discs over or releasing early. And how about everyone else? I've seen some of your locals throw over the fence and I've seen them throw on tennis classes that were on the bleachers. I've seen throws by better players than myself miss cars for no reason other than dumb luck. Can you honestly say that you don't see this being an issue at some point?


And just a piece of advice- When someone pays you a compliment on your course, don't respond with thinly veiled sarcasm or an insult to their game. I thought that the SDGA threads would have proved how unproductive that can be .

[ScottW]

Sean, I didn't intend any veiled sarcasm - really I didn't - sorry! I have thrown in both directions as you have mentioned and I have always learned instantly what I did wrong. In those particular instances I, myself had no business throwing a driver. I have played the hole before with 3 putter shots and walked off with a 3, perhaps not the best/smartest play but was quite safe. Perhaps two easy throws with a mid range. All I am saying, to anyone not just you but also including myself, is sometimes you just gotta play smarter for safety reasons (myself included). I'll throw light TeeBirds or Rocs if there are people playing tennis, or if the wind is blowing, or if there are spectators. If there's nobody around bomb away. We all need to be smarter though and we need to make sure when errant shots happen that the proper steps are taken to keep all park users happy, even if that means throwing a different disc in the future so you land where you know you should. I don't think that everyone plays parking lot and beyond or tennis courts and beyond as OB, that will help keep other park users safe and everyone happy. But as I mentioned earlier in this post, I did not mean any offense by my earlier post and I also did not mean that to be specific to you or any one person.

As for your remarks about the SDGA threads - all I gotta say is there is a reason why I post so little in there. They are bad and I certainly don't want this to turn into that or have anything that I say be thought of as along those lines.

[Yoduh]

I like the sound of a bunch of new area being opened up. That course needs to be redesigned bad!

I would be more than happy to come over and lend a design tip or to or just give the AOK if its already awesome..

[ScottW]

I encourage EVERYONE who is interested to get involved with this. There has been a lot of discussion on www.northidahodiscgolf.com in the forums - LOTS of talk with pics too. I think the next plan is to meet before the next Cherry League on the 13th (4 to 4:30pm I would guess)to walk the new area and discuss options, this would be a good time to come have a look around, then stick around and play league. Then we will meet the next evening (thursday the 14th) at the Pizza Factory in Post Falls to discuss stuff further, would also be a good time to show up and voice your opinion. I have not seen some of the proposed changes but it sounds like some are significant. Keep in mind we still need permission from the city. If you want to meet in advance and discuss further options I would contact Ben Squires - he is our club Pres. and has been participating a lot. He lives near Cherry and has a lot of free time now. I'll pass his info on if anyone wants to contact him.

[ScottW]

Short notice I know but the meeting to further discuss Cherry Hill starts in a bit in Post Falls, anyone is welcome to attend and put in their 2 cents. Had a small group walk the course yesterday before league and propose some good changes and some OK changes. Couldn't help but notice that I was the only one there from Spokane. After posting info here and speaking in person to a few people directly about this it will be awfully hard to hear any negative feedback from Spokane disc golfers who don't like the changes that may be made there, I know many if not all Spokane players dislike Cherry Hill as much as I do but this would be the second chance to give feedback on course design/improvements. Get out to the meeting if you can still. I also encouraged our club to keep feedback open so we can have more players comment so if you have seen the work done at the park and have any comments now would be a pretty good time to make those comments.

[ScottW]

Still looking for more feedback on the proposed changes to Cherry Hill Disc Golf Course. Tons of feedback from locals who aren't necessarily the highest skilled players and who don't necessarily know course design well (might get myself in some trouble for that one) but we are still open to any and all suggestions. Many ideas for hole re-designs have been proposed and if we don't get more feedback soon the holes are gonna change the way the locals want them to. If you have spare time get a hold of Jack at Rapid Fire or Ben Squires the NIDGC Pres. and get your ideas to them.

[Rapid Fire Jack]

Monte from CDA Parks Dept. emailed me to say that his boss has okayed our proposed layout pretty much as is. We can begin work at any time. Geoff Carr emailed me yesterday to ask how soon he can begin some work out there. Time for interested parties to place their name and phone # on a volunteer call list. Spread the word. Anyone willing to meet Jeff and I out there next week can help us plan materials needed for various new teepads. My general plan to recommend to the Club is to 1) build level teepads with RR ties on the new holes that need significant leveling ( #3, #4, #6, #11, #12, #13, #17 and #18); install new sleeves or move selected sleeves from existing holes to set up one basket location on each new hole; 3) prep the more level new teepad sites. This work could be done without disrupting play on the existing course. Once all the new teepad sites are prepped and one sleeve is in for each new hole, then 4) pick a weekend to make the switch to the new layout. At that time move all tee mats to new tee sites and place all baskets in new configuration. Add some temporary signage to explain the layout. The course would be closed for as little as one day while the switches are being made. Then with the new course playable, additional work could go on to place the second basket sleeve for each hole, and improve the rest of the tee pads that need only minor changes. After the new course is in play for a month or so, we should have all the alternate placments in and be ready to move baskets from the "A" course to the "B" course.

[Rapid Fire Jack]

As in WORK PARTY that is. I spoke with Monte at CdA Parks Dept today. They discussed our proposed work plan for Cherry Hill at their staff meeting yesterday. Looks good to them. Monte's only question was what trimming/tree removal needs to be done, so he can point it out to Bill Greenwood. Sound like Monte would like to do the cutting/clearing rather soon. He said we can begin our work parties at our discretion. Anyone in for a "party"? I say we get the ball rolling and do a little digging soon before the ground freezes hard. Doesn't need to be a big deal. 3 or 4 guys for 3 or 4 hours would be a good start.

[tomw]

Im only available on weekends and i want to share my wknd time with my spouse. You and i Jack (with others) have been the anchors in the past. How about the course redisigners, have you herd from either of them?

[Rapid Fire Jack]

Yes, actually, Ben has asked to get started doing some levelling of teepad sites, and it sounds like he has a couple helpers lined up. Also Chris Chase, Cody Hixson, Brian Johnston, and Aaron Anderson have added their names to the volunteer list at Rapid Fire, so we have a small core of people to call on. You've put in a good chunk of time at both Cherry Hill and Corbin, Tom, so I say don't feel bad about letting some others get their hands dirty on this project. It will be an extended process over the next several months and lots of people will need to get involved. Many hands make light work, as they say.

[Rapid Fire Jack]

I met with 3 reps from the CdA Parks Dept at Cherry Hill on thursday Dec. 1. we walked the course and reviewed the revised layout and the requested pruning/limbing/tree removal to accommodate the changes. Here's a rundown on the results: Hole #1 - they are open to the concept of an elevated peninsula. Their preference would be a steep but mowable slope around it. I expressed a preference for a rock retainer for a more unique and challenging feature. They will give it some thought. Hole #2 - they prefer not to move the teepad any closer to the Memorial. suggesed leaving it where it is and bringing the #8 teepad back. Should work. Ben came up with a great suggestion later: reverse the numbering of those two holes. The new #8 would become #2. The old #2 would become the new #8. I think it would flow better, keeping #8 players from walking across other basket areas. Hole #3 and #4- they are okay with as requested. Hole #5 - okay as proposed. Open to possibility of some limited pruning to open more of a lane if we want a longer pin placement to the left and uphill into the trees. Hole #6 - The initial tee work is infringing on the road embankment. Needs to move away from the road a bit. Okay with limbing low branches in front of tee. Hole #7 - no discussion. Ben later requested limbing of lower branches within putting range of basket, for drives/upshots that go long. Hole #8 - see notes for Hole #2. One tree removal or limbing to be decided after tee and basket are in place. Hole #9 - okay to use slab. Will limb branches by teepad. Will remove only a portion (right third) of lilac hedge below old #9 tee. Still gives a good fairway opening. Hole #10 - Willing to remove 3 trees for the new pin placement to the right, but changed the selection, leaving one healthy tree in the middle. Still leaves a wide gap, but with the single tree as a potential obstacle. As Ben said - even if you hit that tree, you'll still have a putt. Hole #11 - okay with new tee closer to corner. Hole #12 - move tee slightly left so tree in question can be just limbed up rather than removed. Hole #13 - They are okay with removing the 3 small trees to open a throwing lane to the right off the tee. Reluctant to removing all we requested for the tight shot across the ravine. For that, they will trim back a portion of the first bush but not remove it; in the gully, they will remove only the right tree of the two we requested, but will limb up the other tree, plus another tree further right. We will need to move the pin placement 10 or 12 feet to the right to align with the opening that will be provided. Hole #14 - no discussion. Will need some minor limbing for the new long basket position, but should be no problem. Hole #15 - After new tee is set they will look at what minor clearing needs to be done. Hole #16 - after new pin placement is in on far side of ravine, they will look at limbing low branches as needed. Hole #17 - okay with removal of one bush near new pin placement. Ben later suggested making the second basket placement left of the existing pin rather that right of it, providing a much different shot through an existing alleyway. Hole #18 - will do limited limbing as needed after basket placements are established. Practice Putting basket needs to be located where they planned it - to the right of tee #1, toward the tennis courts. Overall the City Parks Dept. is very cooperative. The changes were all relatively minor and sought to retain a good design for the Disc Golf layout.