other series: Shelton Springs Wednesday Night Doubles...

[KG_MCDGC]

Here is the event info:

Start:
5:30pm SHARP! That means be there at or before 5:15
*Until there is more daylight to play, all Doubles events will take place from the Red/AM tees.


Cost:
$5 buy-in
$1 optional Ace-Pot and Raffle
*Ace pot is a rolling Ace that builds till it pays. All ties will be split up between Aces (I.E. You get two aces somebody gets one, you get 2/3s of the Ace Pot.)


Ace-Pot Raffle:
At the end of the round we draw from a pool that includes all who played that day. If you payed into the Ace-Pot, did not cash, and your name is drawn you win a free disc.
*Rule 1: Must have 14 or more players.
*Rule 2: No double winners, if we draw someone that got ANY cash we WILL redraw.
*Rule 3: If we draw someone who didn't pay into the Ace-Pot we WILL NOT redraw.


Payouts:
04-19 Players 02-09 Teams -Top Team $10-48
20-29 Players 10-15 Teams -2nd place Team $10, Top Team $40-63
30-39 Players 15-20 Teams -3rd place Team $10, 2nd place Team $15, Top Team $50-70
40-49 Players 20-25 Teams -3rd place Team $15, 2nd place Team $20, Top Team $65-88
50-72 Players 25-36 Teams - 3rd place Team $20, 2nd place Team $25, Top Team $80-135


**IMPORTANT**
Player Meeting will be held prior to event at the PUMP HOUSE. The Pump House is located between Holes 1 & 18. For those unfamiliar, just walk beyond tee box for Hole 1 to the defunct access road and head left. The access road leads to the Pump House.

[KG_MCDGC]

BUMP!

So this starts tonight. Some of you should read this and then get in your car and drive to Shelton right now so you'll get there in time. You couldn't ask for a better day to come out.

*Also, the payout information has been updated, and there is also "Ace Pot Raffle" information too.

[TYVEK]

had fun yesterday. i would like to put in my 2 cents on a couple things though. i would suggest doing a rolling ace pot instead of it being a raffle sort of thing. i would be far more inclined to pay into the ace pot if i knew that it would keep growing until a player hit an ace.

the second thing is to start earlier than 5:30 for at least the next month, because playing the last 3 holes in the dark in the woods was really not much fun.

there you go, for whatever it is worth those are my suggestions after playing last night.

[Skookum]

From front page

Cost:
$5 buy-in and you get a ticket(half to Winners, half to MCDG)
$1 optional Ace-Pot and we don't mark your ticket up disqualifying you from the Ace Pot Raffle.
*Ace pot is a rolling Ace that builds till it pays. All ties will be split up between Aces (I.E. You get two aces somebody gets one, you get 2/3s of the Ace Pot.)

The raffle is in addition to the Ace pot, (Current Pot $38 dollars). Contrary to popular belief we will even do the raffle if some one hits the Ace. The only time there is no raffle winner is when we pull the name of someone who did not pay into the Ace pot. This should help to get almost everyone to pay into the Pot and grow it super huge so you can hit it.

As far as start time we will be discussing it today, I think if folks have 20 more minutes of light and play with a little more urgency we should be fine. I am really against switching times around I think the lesson we will take from this is to not start doubles until mid April. The six'um I played with was last to start and finished in the daylight so I know it's possible and we shot like 55-56 so not like we were crushing it or anything. But like I said we will discus it.

Out of curiosity how did you feel the random draw grouping and slightly staggered shotgun start went?

[TYVEK]

thanks for the clarification about the ace pot. i was under the impression that money was just going to the club if an ace wasnt hit and a raffle was being held so people still had a chance at something.

that seems cool to include a raffle as a bonus sort of thing. maybe at the next doubles you can clarify that the raffle ticket is part of initial 5 dollar fee and not part of the 1 dollar ace pot, i now understand how a person could have a ticket without paying into the ace pot. thanks.

the way the groups were picked went relitively smoothly even with the pressure of trying to get things started on time and having people show up late. i think that with less pressure to get playing the grouping will go really well and easily. it deffinately takes away the jumble of people saying "who are we teaming up with, and what hole do you want to start on?" it was nice being told who is in our group and what hole we are going to and i also thought that the 2 minute start that you implemented was nice also.

thanks for your response to my 2 cents,
see you later.

[Skookum]

Well we are getting closer...

I will try and put it another way, the one extra dollar gets you into the Ace pot and the Raffle. No dollar no win Ace pot or Raffle. The raffle is to encourage participation in the Ace pot as well as an opportunity for folks who may not be able to throw as many Ace runs to win something.

Some of the rules are not as clear as I would like but as this is not my post it does make it a little harder to update with clearer language.

[KG_MCDGC]

I think for the inaugural Doubles event went rather smooth.

The two aspects that TYVEK hit on were new/foreign to most Doubles participants, but I think that both, the "Ace Pot Raffle" and the Drawing of Groups and Starting Holes, were great ideas. I think that the confusion brought on by these, because I'm sure that TYVEK wasn't the only one, will be alleviated by these simply becoming protocol of how MCDG holds their Doubles events. It will become second nature to buy a ticket, sign it, and wait to hear your name called to see who your partner is and what your hole start is.

The "Ace Pot Raffle" is to promote people buying into the Ace Pot, because Shelton Springs DGC being what it is, Aces can be tough to come by. No one wants to feel like they're going to buy in to something they have no chance of winning. The Raffle aspect gives you an extra chance to win something; just ask Riley, the winner of last night's Raffle. To clarify, the Ace Pot IS a Rolling Ace Pot, which is currently at $38.

It was disappointing that some groups were finishing in the dark. The group I was in began to play with a sense of urgency toward the end of our round. I agree that changing the Start Time can confuse people more. 5:30 is not only a fair start time, it is the established Start Time. Time is always going to be a factor, but the days will be getting longer. I'm certain that MCDG will keep this in mind when it decides how strict they will become on Start Time issues.

[ChUcK]

Keep the 5:30 start time. Nature will take care of the end time, and will fix it in a week or two. Keep the raffle, too, it gives people something to stick around for and socialize.

I like the pairing method, drawing names out of a hat for partners. It took a little longer than the playing card method I'm used to seeing (all draw cards, black 2s are partners, playing against the red 2s) but it'll streamline itself as you guys become old hats at running the Shelton dubs.

They way you set it up where each group starts 2 minutes after getting to their starting hole, I thought that was pretty cool too. It must have been arranged well, because as far as I could tell my group was the only one on the course as we played. I could hear occasional distant chains, but it could have been my imagination.

I recommend starting without a straggler once or twice. If the latecomers see that you mean business about the start time, they will fix themselves.

Fun times, thanks guys!

[Skookum]

Lol the playing cards are only faster if they are organized correctly first. Man I have seen some fowl ups with them before (most done by myself) I guess with practice though you can get the cards to a point that they don't end up a cluster. I do like the fact that everyone just knows where to go and when to start and who they are playing with.

Hey Kevin I have and update rules description on the web page if you want update your post with that. I think its clearer.

[KG_MCDGC]

For those who read this that weren't there, a little eye candy.



Also, the final tally for last night Doubles was 38 players.
1st place- Troy & Fish 47(-13) $95
2nd place- Kevin & Shawn 50(-10) $15
3rd place- Terry & Andrew 51(-9) $10

[P. abrupta]

Great Start To Doubles! I had a blast. The paring worked well. I think we should cut registration off at 5:15 (as mentioned above, after a few show up late and get turned away, everyone will learn to arrive at 5) and have groups walking to their spots by 5:25 for a true 5:30 start. I did not look at my watch, but I bet most groups did not tee off until about 5:45 or later.

Can't wait for next time!

[TYVEK]

ok, so i thought i totally understood the ace pot/raffle thing, but after the last post about now i have another question.

i remember you saying that if you pulled a ticket for somebody that hadnt payed into the ace pot, then nobody would get the raffle prize. so if the ticket IS tied in with the ace pot, then how can somebody have a ticket without paying into the ace pot?

[KG_MCDGC]

Ticket=entry into Doubles (NOT Ace Pot)
*You pay into the Ace Pot separately, and it is also payed out separately.

The "Ace Pot Raffle" is only valid for people who buy into the Ace Pot. If the ticket pulled is not the name of someone who has bought into the Ace Pot, then the drawing is over. It encourages everyone to pay into the Ace Pot, by increasing the percentage of pulling out a winner for the Raffle.



What I said up there^^^:
The "Ace Pot Raffle" is to promote people buying into the Ace Pot, because Shelton Springs DGC being what it is, Aces can be tough to come by. No one wants to feel like they're going to buy in to something they have no chance of winning. The Raffle aspect gives you an extra chance to win something; just ask Riley, the winner of last night's Raffle. To clarify, the Ace Pot IS a Rolling Ace Pot, which is currently at $38.

[P. abrupta]

How about this explanation Orion: If you choose to not pay into the ace pot, you will still get a ticket, but it will be marked to show you did not pay. Then if your ticket is drawn nobody will get a disc that week. I think this does a good job of motivating people to pay in even if they can’t throw the distance to most pins, and creates a little peer pressure: if someone gets their ticket pulled who did not pay they will feel the sting of boos from the crowd and lost opportunity. It’s all about having a great time, motivating people to come out and raising some money for those tee pads.

[KG_MCDGC]

Let's not forget how having a large Ace Pot can be a huge attraction for people on the fence about coming to Shelton Springs for Doubles. Let's say that 30 people buy into the Ace Pot in the next 3 weekly Doubles events, and no one hits the Ace. The Ace Pot will be around $128, after 1 month! That's a decent payout for one shot.

[ChUcK]

I have the feeling the Shelton Springs ace pot will occasionally grow to large numbers. The island hole (12?) is the likely suspect to take the pot, but there aren't too many other pure ace runs.

Have you guys considered the possibility of handing out half the pot to a team that manages to deuce (fairway ace) one of the higher par holes?

I dig the raffle, and the possibility of the picked ticket having not paid in.

"Oh, way to go, Johnny. Couldn't be bothered to bring one more measly dollar for the acepot, huh? Well then NO ONE wins a disc! Who feels like an ass? That's right, Johnny does."


edit: you're right, Morgan, the playing card scheme can turn into a serious cluster f. if done improperly. I seem to remember a Lakewood dubs when we dealt out the cards 3 times before getting it right. Poor Matt Gill, that must have been stressful.

[EnigmaSquad]

So what is the Ace pot up to? Anyone hit it yet?

[matt]

will the doubles be going on this wed? (because its 4th of July holiday)

[Kenny B]

Originally Posted by KG_MCDGC

04-19 Players 02-09 Teams -Top Team $10-48
20-29 Players 10-15 Teams -2nd place Team $10, Top Team $40-63
30-39 Players 15-20 Teams -3rd place Team $10, 2nd place Team $15, Top Team $50-70
40-49 Players 20-25 Teams -3rd place Team $15, 2nd place Team $20, Top Team $65-88
50-72 Players 25-36 Teams - 3rd place Team $20, 2nd place Team $25, Top Team $80-135

I hope you don't mind if I suggest a different payout plan based on some observations of things that could be improved.

Currently, with 4 players, the winners would get $10, exactly what they paid in. A little odd that with only 4 players, no one can actually win any money. Of course, I doubt doubles is rarely played with only four people out there. I would suggest making it $15 to the winners when there is 4 players or 6 players (already the plan for 6 players).

With 19 players, the winners get $48, but with 20 players, the winners get only $40. This is carried along at the other transition levels. At 29 players, the winners get $63, but at 30 they get only $50, and so on with $70/$65 and $88/$80. I've never seen a payout plan like this where the winners get less money when the number of players goes up.

I think the reason this is happening is because the winners are getting paid too much at the high end of each participation range. In other words, I would recommend decreasing the winner's payout at 19, 29, 39, & 49 participant levels, not increasing the payout at 20, 30, 40, & 50.

Here's an example of what I think could work better. It incorporates another principle I prefer, which is last to cash always getting at least their $ back:

# teams, $ towards payout, 1st, 2nd, etc...
2, 15, 15
3, 15, 15
4, 20, 20
5, 25, 25
6, 35, 25, 10
7, 40, 30, 10
8, 45, 30, 15
9, 50, 35, 15
10, 55, 40, 15
11, 65, 40, 15, 10
12, 70, 40, 20, 10
13, 75, 45, 20, 10